Comments for Sales Process Engineering http://www.salesprocessengineering.net The application of process-engineering principles (particularly TOC) to the sales process Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:48:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution by Justin Roff-Marsh http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/comment-page-1/#comment-1320 Justin Roff-Marsh Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:48:42 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/#comment-1320 Very good. Face time mightn't be everything - but without it, you got nothing! Very good. Face time mightn't be everything – but without it, you got nothing!

]]> Comment on The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution by Justin Roff-Marsh http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/comment-page-1/#comment-1319 Justin Roff-Marsh Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:47:06 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/#comment-1319 Hi Joel-Henry. Congratulations on the TOC group. Happy to discuss translation in due course. Hi Joel-Henry. Congratulations on the TOC group. Happy to discuss translation in due course.

]]> Comment on The Machine > Introduction by Justin Roff-Marsh http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/05/the-machine-introduction/comment-page-1/#comment-1318 Justin Roff-Marsh Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:44:10 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/?p=427#comment-1318 Thank you! And thank you for your ongoing support of my blog. Thank you! And thank you for your ongoing support of my blog.

]]> Comment on The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution by Christoph Steindl http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/comment-page-1/#comment-1316 Christoph Steindl Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:57:28 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/#comment-1316 I've been following you and your approach for some time now. I don't know much about marketing & sales - but what you describe makes sense to me. I have worked as IT Architect for IBM for some years (in project delivery as well as in pre-sales). But during all that time, I've only seen sales reps who spend way more time in the office than on client visits. In the meantime, I've founded a software development company. We have a lot of common sense and a deep knowledge of the Theory of Constraints. Together that has helped us to grow our company quickly. We're now extending our marketing & sales efforts. With the guidance from your approach, I'm sure that we will have a neat process and organization - AND A LOT OF FACE TIME WITH OUR CLIENTS - within only a few months. I've been following you and your approach for some time now.
I don't know much about marketing & sales – but what you describe makes sense to me.
I have worked as IT Architect for IBM for some years (in project delivery as well as in pre-sales). But during all that time, I've only seen sales reps who spend way more time in the office than on client visits.
In the meantime, I've founded a software development company. We have a lot of common sense and a deep knowledge of the Theory of Constraints. Together that has helped us to grow our company quickly. We're now extending our marketing & sales efforts.
With the guidance from your approach, I'm sure that we will have a neat process and organization – AND A LOT OF FACE TIME WITH OUR CLIENTS – within only a few months.

]]> Comment on The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution by Joel-Henry Grossard http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/comment-page-1/#comment-1294 Joel-Henry Grossard Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:32:58 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/08/18/the-machine-part-1-chapter-1-after-the-revolution/#comment-1294 Hi, Justin, What a great idea to write this new body of knowledge in a book! I am already one of those you sent for free to my home address in France (I am French) your digest "Reengineering the Sales Process" and your whitepapers plus your CD on How to grow sales in a shrinking economy. Thanks for sharing your breakthrough ideas on sales. As a management consultant for more than 30 years - I am 62 - in turnaround situations, I have seen almost everywhere salespeople acting like artisans (the word comes from French), left alone, having everything dealing with sales and customers relationship to fix. I discovered TOC in February 2007 by reading The Goal in one night and since then I have decided to apply the underlying ideas and methods, scientific method and Socratic Approach, in my professional and personal life. I am also the founder, since November 2008, and moderator of the most popular discussion group (210 members) about TOC in French on Viadeo, a professional network. <a href="http://www.viadeo.com/hu03/0021mqy2ylpp6blm/theorie-des-contraintes" rel="nofollow">http://www.viadeo.com/hu03/0021mqy2ylpp6blm/theor...</a> One of the major teachings of Eli Goldratt is that if you want to manage and control a system, you need to have it made of interdependent resources, i.e. you may have a manageable process. If, on the contrary, this system is formed by independent resources, with as much degrees of freedom as components, it is hard to control and manage. This is typically the case for traditional sales organizations. Your reference to division-of-labor as a way to organize a manageable process is therefore quite relevant. It transforms an individual run in a relay run, the global performance depending on each runner performance. I am really waiting for your incoming chapters and would be very pleased if you could authorize me (with conditions to be if needed discussed) to translate your book in French. Regards. Joël-Henry Grossard Hi, Justin,
What a great idea to write this new body of knowledge in a book!
I am already one of those you sent for free to my home address in France (I am French) your digest "Reengineering the Sales Process" and your whitepapers plus your CD on How to grow sales in a shrinking economy.
Thanks for sharing your breakthrough ideas on sales.
As a management consultant for more than 30 years – I am 62 – in turnaround situations, I have seen almost everywhere salespeople acting like artisans (the word comes from French), left alone, having everything dealing with sales and customers relationship to fix.
I discovered TOC in February 2007 by reading The Goal in one night and since then I have decided to apply the underlying ideas and methods, scientific method and Socratic Approach, in my professional and personal life.
I am also the founder, since November 2008, and moderator of the most popular discussion group (210 members) about TOC in French on Viadeo, a professional network. http://www.viadeo.com/hu03/0021mqy2ylpp6blm/theor...
One of the major teachings of Eli Goldratt is that if you want to manage and control a system, you need to have it made of interdependent resources, i.e. you may have a manageable process.
If, on the contrary, this system is formed by independent resources, with as much degrees of freedom as components, it is hard to control and manage. This is typically the case for traditional sales organizations.
Your reference to division-of-labor as a way to organize a manageable process is therefore quite relevant. It transforms an individual run in a relay run, the global performance depending on each runner performance.
I am really waiting for your incoming chapters and would be very pleased if you could authorize me (with conditions to be if needed discussed) to translate your book in French.
Regards.
Joël-Henry Grossard

]]> Comment on The Machine by Sales Process Engineering » Blog Archive » The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/the-machine/comment-page-1/#comment-1287 Sales Process Engineering » Blog Archive » The Machine > Part 1 > Chapter 1: After the revolution Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:52:00 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/the-machine/#comment-1287 [...] The Machine [...] [...] The Machine [...]

]]> Comment on The evil of time-and-material billing by Justin Roff-Marsh http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 Justin Roff-Marsh Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:38:00 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/#comment-1283 Rajeev I guess the fundamental question is, on what basis should you choose to compete. There are three alternatives: low total cost, product leadership, and market intimacy (see Discipline of Market Leaders). I expect that Indian sofware companies have entered the international market competing on the basis of low daily rates. It would be tempting to assume that you should abandon this strategy as the market becomes more competitive and the playing field more balanced. It's important to remember that your daily rates (ticket price) are only one facet of the 'lowest total cost' strategy. Others include, speed, quality, and total-cost of ownership. I'd encourage you to fully exploit this strategy before attempting to change horses. Justin Rajeev

I guess the fundamental question is, on what basis should you choose to compete. There are three alternatives: low total cost, product leadership, and market intimacy (see Discipline of Market Leaders).

I expect that Indian sofware companies have entered the international market competing on the basis of low daily rates.

It would be tempting to assume that you should abandon this strategy as the market becomes more competitive and the playing field more balanced.

It’s important to remember that your daily rates (ticket price) are only one facet of the ‘lowest total cost’ strategy. Others include, speed, quality, and total-cost of ownership. I’d encourage you to fully exploit this strategy before attempting to change horses.

Justin

]]> Comment on The evil of time-and-material billing by Justin Roff-Marsh http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 Justin Roff-Marsh Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:32:00 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/#comment-1282 Hi Rajeev I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest that you abandon the T&M approach. I suspect many US companies send work to India simply because they can buy the man-day cheaper. However, you may wish to change your mix of work to favor fixed price. The challenge here, is that the two modes of operation require totally different management environments and even team structures. If you are bidding on a project-basis against others who are bidding on a T&M basis, you may still do the latter calculation to get a feel for the ‘market price’. From there, there are two considerations: 1. What price would you need to quote to have a high likelihood of winning? 2. What price would you need to quote to maintain or improve the current financial performance of your project portfolio? What you are likely to find is that the mode of operation caused by the T&M engagement model is less efficient than the pure project environment – providing you an arbitrage opportunity. Justin Hi Rajeev

I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest that you abandon the T&M approach. I suspect many US companies send work to India simply because they can buy the man-day cheaper.

However, you may wish to change your mix of work to favor fixed price. The challenge here, is that the two modes of operation require totally different management environments and even team structures.

If you are bidding on a project-basis against others who are bidding on a T&M basis, you may still do the latter calculation to get a feel for the ‘market price’.

From there, there are two considerations:

1. What price would you need to quote to have a high likelihood of winning?

2. What price would you need to quote to maintain or improve the current financial performance of your project portfolio?

What you are likely to find is that the mode of operation caused by the T&M engagement model is less efficient than the pure project environment – providing you an arbitrage opportunity.

Justin

]]> Comment on The evil of time-and-material billing by Rajeev http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/comment-page-1/#comment-1279 Rajeev Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:14:00 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/#comment-1279 Continued from the previous comment... Generally, a client chooses few vendors and negotiates the lowest price with them. The discussions are on the effort rather than the value that the client may derive out of getting the work done. This happens between most US companies and Indian vendors. What solution would you propose to determine the price? What could be the sales process for such companies? What could be the Decisive Competitive Edge? What could be the unrefusable offer? By the way, I am your fan for a long time. I have studied the sales process created by you. I also study your posts on TOC sites. Regards, Rajeev Continued from the previous comment…

Generally, a client chooses few vendors and negotiates the lowest price with them. The discussions are on the effort rather than the value that the client may derive out of getting the work done.

This happens between most US companies and Indian vendors.

What solution would you propose to determine the price?
What could be the sales process for such companies?
What could be the Decisive Competitive Edge?
What could be the unrefusable offer?

By the way, I am your fan for a long time. I have studied the sales process created by you. I also study your posts on TOC sites.

Regards,

Rajeev

]]> Comment on The evil of time-and-material billing by Rajeev http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/comment-page-1/#comment-1278 Rajeev Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:12:22 +0000 http://www.salesprocessengineering.net/2010/07/16/the-evil-of-time-and-material-billing/#comment-1278 Hello Justin, Thanks for the great article. I am curious to know how you would determine the price in Software Outsourcing industry. Let me explain the scenario. Generally, the software related work is outsourced (say from US to India) in two ways - Fixed price for a specified work or Time and Material basis. Many times, the work is related to software maintenance, bug fix, small enhancements etc. At times there are development projects also. If it is fixed price contract, many times, the price is determined by the bidding process and typically the vendors calculate their price by estimating the man-days required. Generally, new development work is outsourced with a fixed price. For Time and material contracts, the client asks for a specified number of developers, analysts, project managers etc. and the price is negotiated for various skills. In case, the vendor does not put in the agreed number of people for a period of time, the proportionate amount of money is deducted. Generally, Maintenance, bug-fix etc. is outsourced on T & M basis. Continued in the next comment... Hello Justin,

Thanks for the great article.

I am curious to know how you would determine the price in Software Outsourcing industry. Let me explain the scenario. Generally, the software related work is outsourced (say from US to India) in two ways – Fixed price for a specified work or Time and Material basis. Many times, the work is related to software maintenance, bug fix, small enhancements etc. At times there are development projects also.

If it is fixed price contract, many times, the price is determined by the bidding process and typically the vendors calculate their price by estimating the man-days required. Generally, new development work is outsourced with a fixed price.

For Time and material contracts, the client asks for a specified number of developers, analysts, project managers etc. and the price is negotiated for various skills. In case, the vendor does not put in the agreed number of people for a period of time, the proportionate amount of money is deducted. Generally, Maintenance, bug-fix etc. is outsourced on T & M basis.

Continued in the next comment…

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